Dave Weckl's new cd due out July 12th

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June 27th, 2005, 12:13 AM
Paraflam

Hey man, everyone has an opinion. To those who said he plays polyrhythms, fine. I don't consider quarter note triplets upside down a polyrhythm. It is technically, but it's the simplest form. Yes I've heard him do that. Dave does not intergrate 5, 7,9,11, or 13 note groupings over 2, 3 or 4 beats. That's more of what I was talking about. So I wasn't wrong. 3 over 4 is as simple as 2 over 4 to my ears. And as far as artificial groupings, he does touch upon those from time to time, but rarely. For those who don't know what I'm saying, artificial groupings are odd groupings of 8th,16th, and other various even rates.

I love Dave's playing. I'm just not fan of his own band, and his drum machine like playing on his own albums. You can argue as much as you like. To me, it's not happening. I'd rather put on an old Chick album like Light Years or The Electric Band, and let Dave blow my face off, while playing some amazingly written music.
No offense to any of you. In my opinion the compositions in his own band are not my favorite. Sorry....This is after all a forum. I never said I didn't like Dave. He's a huge influence on certain areas of my playing. And until someone freaked out, several people voiced the same opinion. Sorry if I don't like everything the man does. I'm not alone.

[ June 26, 2005 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Paraflam ]
June 27th, 2005, 01:58 AM
tnsolt

Quote:

Originally posted by Avi_drums:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />he never playes polyrhythms of any kind.

Wrong..Dave plays quite a bit of 4 over 3 stuff, and his beat displacements can suggest 9 in 4. The complex mathematical underpinnings of Vinnie's phrasing are not there, but there are plenty of examples of decent pocket imo. I do think taking the precision factor to an extreme can make for horrible 'music' however.<hr /></blockquote>i don't see how beat displacement could be 9 in or over 4 or feel polyrythmic. i do see though how it could feel like an odd time sig ie two bars of 1/8 notes = 16 beats so u could break that into 7+9 or 9+7(=16).

but beat displacement is just syncopation. to me the mutiple ryhthms in ployryhthms don't "line up" like triplets vs. their "straight" counterpart.
June 27th, 2005, 02:18 AM
got_a_matchgrip

Quote:

but beat displacement is just syncopation to me

That is what i was trying to say [wish i wouldv'e done it that concisely!]

It's OK, PF, no big deal. You're entitled to your opin. I hear ya [awa understand what your saying]. No probs. I'm just too busy gacking out on Dave's playing level ability...i think most agree there, anyway... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Nobody's "holding guns" to anyone else's head...[we left the stockade & artillery back somewhere buried under the rubble of the Buddy Today thread!!] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ June 26, 2005 11:22 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]
June 27th, 2005, 02:22 AM
tnsolt

got a match
i can never understand what the f*$k your saying... j/k [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
dont kick my [arse]
ps i like the new name w/ cceb ref

[ June 26, 2005 11:24 PM: Message edited by: shockediddle ]
June 27th, 2005, 02:25 AM
Avi_drums

Quote:

i don't see how beat displacement could be 9 in or over 4 or feel polyrythmic

I used the word 'suggest'...if the band is in 4/4, and a bar of 16ths is phrased 3-4-4-5 (displacing the 2 1/16th earlier) it can suggest a polyrhythmic feel. I think Rick Gratton wrote a whole book or two on the subject 'artificial groupings'.
June 27th, 2005, 02:31 AM
tnsolt

Quote:

Originally posted by Avi_drums:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />i don't see how beat displacement could be 9 in or over 4 or feel polyrythmic

I used the word 'suggest'...if the band is in 4/4, and a bar of 16ths is phrased 3-4-4-5 (displacing the 2 1/16th earlier) it can suggest a polyrhythmic feel. I think Rick Gratton wrote a whole book or two on the subject 'artificial groupings'.<hr /></blockquote>right yeah i know exactly what youre saying with artificial groupings/ pharsings. i guess i just go by the strict definition of polyrhythms (p.r.'s).
even weck said at the end of the next step when he does the hand/foot triplets that going it may "sound" (and again i stress "sound")like p.r's but its just 1/8 note triplets and 1/16ths.
i think the other problem too is that i have had way too many math classes, i can't but help try to solve the math in music. i always try to figure out time sig's tempi etc
June 27th, 2005, 02:32 AM
tnsolt

[ June 26, 2005 11:33 PM: Message edited by: shockediddle ]
June 27th, 2005, 02:44 AM
got_a_matchgrip

Yeah. It seems a lot of cats actually have different ideas or schools of thought relating to the defintiton or use of the term "polyrhythm" as per its application towards rhythms in music...[I've done it...] [img]wink.gif[/img]

[ June 26, 2005 11:45 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]
June 27th, 2005, 04:08 AM
got_a_matchgrip

Yeah, that's actually pretty basic. What flar was talking about is more into the "parts of the engine." [img]wink.gif[/img]

We've been so inundated w the basics of radio music often that when these types of motifs are indulged in, applied, & experimented with [as flar said, more coloring than math - true], some folks get lost.

As a young person weened on commrcl radio, i rem a time when any & all of this was quite alien & perplexing, until i got into the deeper musical application AWA players...there's always something to experiment with & learn.

The breakdown & premise [to understand it] is indeed mathematical [or, "fractionary"]; however, the musical application is indeed beyond just that..."coloring."

[ June 27, 2005 01:10 AM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]
June 27th, 2005, 03:00 PM
got_a_matchgrip

[quote]Originally posted by Avi_drums:

Quote:

if the band is in 4/4, and a bar of 16ths is phrased 3-4-4-5 (displacing the 2 1/16th earlier) it can suggest a polyrhythmic feel. I think Rick Gratton wrote a whole book or two on the subject 'artificial groupings'.

Let me see if i got ya right:

By saying "displacing the 2 1/16th earlier," you're actually saying that this is implied [the "2" sounding a 16th early - ] because of the accent on the "a" of 1 [on the 1st note of the 1st groupg of 4-sixteenths, after the 1st grouping of 3], & subsequently on the "a" of 2 & also the 3, & possibly again on the "a" of 4 [the last note of the 5-groupg] [img]confused.gif[/img] ...in essence implying the shifting of the groove or phrasing 1/16th earlier [at same said "a" of 1]? [Hope that made sense]

Yeah, Vinnie, Dave [W & DiC], Dennis, Gregg, awa Gratton do this type of thing every-NAT...

Analamath... [img]wink.gif[/img] If you had a hard time understanding me b4 bro, well then, good luck this time around... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

[ June 27, 2005 12:04 AM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]

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